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AN EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW WITH Dave, how did you start out in this business? I really got started by accident.
I was playing in a band as a teenager and all of our gear got stolen
and this club threw a benefit for us. We were kind of okay, but no
one did anything. It was doing horribly and I ended up putting up
posters and talking these other two bands into playing for free and
we ended up selling 600 tickets on a Tuesday night and selling out
on a $10 ticket, which in 1982 was a pretty spectacular feat for a
bunch of local bands. Where was this at? So you pretty much went out there cold? You didn't have any
opportunities lined up? No. I had nothing going on. I just
basically went out there. I was soon able to get a variety of jobs,
though. I mean, for five years from about 1985 to 1990 I had several
part time jobs. I was Elliot Abbott's assistant on the road working
for The Kinks. I tour managed for a while and did sound for a band
called Fetch’N’Bones who were on db Records at the time before they
went to Capitol. I did some booking agency work and I also booked
for New Music Seminar for 2 years. I ended up just kind of falling
into this situation where I was a promoter again out of necessity.
I was living in a So this was around 1990? In '89. During the New Music Seminar
a club closed that had a great run of shows 8 days before the Seminar.
I found another room, cut a deal, and I just put everything on my
American Express and went for it. It was this huge success. I had
GWAR one night, Redd Kross the next, Pylon, Modern English, and 247
Spyz. The shows did great and I made about twenty grand in one week.
Ron Delsener, (the primary promoter in What did you learn from Bill Graham? Well, he would try to assume responsibility
for everything and make everything work as smoothly as possible. I
mean, in a lot of ways, he was really completely selfless. There are
so many Bill Graham stories I could tell you. There was one where
Jerry Garcia's amp stopped working early on with the Grateful Dead
and Bill Graham just flipped out! He didn't know the first thing about
how to make an amp work but he was right there onstage going through
everything and just screaming at everybody to get Jerry's amp to work.
And even though he was probably more in the way than actually really
being helpful, it was that type of attitude about everything that
he could fucking do it, you know? He wanted to always 'make it happen'
and he didn't want to let people down, right? Yeah, exactly. There
was something they said about Mussolini and they also said it about
Bill Graham. I know it's a horrible thing to say but "...the
train ran on time." (Laughs) So shortly after Bill Graham passed away, Silent Partner Management
hooked up with John Popper and Blues Traveler? That was really kind of weird situation
because I was originally brought into the Blues Traveler camp by Bill.
They had a pretty unique relationship. Basically, there's something
out there called a Key-Man Clause. Blues Traveler had a Key-Man Clause
in their contract that if Bill Graham wasn't there to take care of
them, then the contract was null and void. So upon Bill's passing
the contract was null and void and they basically said, "We're
with Dave Frey. Whatever Dave Frey decides to do that's what we're
doing." Whose idea was it to start the H.O.R.D.E. Festival? It was really John Popper's idea.
I mean, we (Blues Traveler) couldn't get a tour. We called Steve Miller
and we called the Allman Brothers and we called everybody who was
a big band touring outside in the summer at that time and they all
said, "No we don't want you. We're passing." Everybody passed
on us. So everyone passed on you even though Blues Traveler by that
time--the late eighties and very early nineties--had already been
touring for years and had built up a pretty significant following?
Well, that's all relative. I mean, yeah, at the time they had a good
following if the ticket was $10, but in a lot of the outdoor amphitheater
situations the ticket prices were $25, and that was a much higher
hurdle for the audience. It wasn't like it was that unusual or anything.
I mean, Phish was trying for the same tours, too, and they couldn't
get on them nor could any of our other friends like the guys in Widespread
Panic and the Spin Doctors--so we put together H.O.R.D.E. When did the first H.O.R.D.E. tour launch? 1991 and it featured Phish, Blues
Traveler, Spin Doctors, Widespread Panic, and Col. Bruce and the Aquarium
Rescue Unit. And that went on for 8 shows. Each year it just kind
of grew. Each year we were like, "Oh, this is too much work.
We didn't make any money. We’ll NEVER do that again. That was stupid!"
And, you know, the following year we'd end up doing it again! But
now, I think, we've gotten more relaxed about doing it and less stressed
out. What are some of the things you've learned just from that standpoint
of organizing something massive like the H.O.R.D.E. Festival? Well you just can't plan enough. I
think the most important thing is to look at any situation from the
consumer's point of view. As a manager or even as a festival promoter,
it's really important to realize that the artists you represent primarily
sell two things: recorded music and tickets. Hopefully in conjunction
with each other, but they're often two completely separate careers.
Records are a much more fickle business. Records are driven by whatever
flavor happens to be this week on MTV or Top 40 radio. There are people
that can aim right at that and hit it every time and reinvent themselves
once a year, but eventually they lose it. Whether it's Michael Jackson
or Prince or Madonna. And then there are other people that are just
in the right place at the right time and they kind of hit it. Records
seem to be more like supernovas: you're massive and then you're yesterday's
news. But if you build a ticket selling base in a solid and real way,
which is a lot more one on one with your fans, that's something that
stays the same. I mean your record will come and go and you will still
sell the same amount of tickets if you build it right. It's a real
simple and obvious thing that people don't realize, you know? They're
two completely separate animals and you have to approach them that
way. What's a typical day in the life of artist manager, Dave Frey? Well, basically I'm on the phone a
lot. There's two real key things (to have), I think, as a business
person being involved with a creative person. The first element is
trust. And the second element is communication. I'm sure so many people
have seen that first element assigned in ways that they think are
completely bizarre so many times. For instance, the Colonel with Elvis.
The Colonel was a Carnie Barker who didn't even graduate from high
school and he managed the biggest act ever at that time. People were
coming at Elvis left and right but he stayed with the Colonel. Why?
He trusted him. Right. It wasn't experience, it wasn't that he was
the best man for the job. More than any of that, he trusted the guy.
That's the key thing. When a guy in a band is out in a van or in a
recording studio or onstage doing all the things that a performer
or an entertainer needs to do, they know that their counsel--it's
really client counsel is how I see it--is representing them in a way
that they want to be represented and that they trust how they're being
represented by that person. And that's really a critical key thing.
I mean, how many times has it been the best friend of the band being
the manager? You see it all the time. Yeah, for better or for worse.
So anyway...I find myself constantly on the phone because as a conduit
for the artist, I'm really trying to get what they need to get done
and also be an objective sonic board to them. For instance, when the
artist calls and goes, 'Jeez, we've got to get this song on the radio.'
Well, maybe it isn't the time to go to radio. You just went to radio
and it didn't work and if you go back again they're going to perceive
you as a failure and you don't want the taste of failure in someone's
mouth. So, whatever the situation is, there's always stuff to communicate
and you're never finished...ever! I've never cleaned my desk ever
and gone home and said, 'Wow, I got everything done today!' (Laughs)
It's never happened and it never will! That's a hard thing to get
used to. Are you the type of manager who is proactive in calling the
record labels personally--having the direct relationship with the
labels and setting up deals for your clients--or do you mainly specialize
in other areas? Yeah, absolutely. I mean it all depends
on the band and the client and what the situation is, you know? That
completely depends. I normally try to put a team around an artist.
We're like the quarterback. With record selling, for instance, you've
got (to interface with) the record company and publishing company
and that's a huge thing right there because you've got all those departments
that those people have plus international. With touring, you've got
the booking agency, you've got the promoter, you've got a merchandising
entity. That's a lot to try to keep coordinated as well, too. So,
then you have to cross-promote all those things to make sure that
the record company is taking out ads to promote the show when you're
in the city and that the record store has it on sale, etc. All those
sorts of things are really detailed things to stay on top of and try
to keep well-planned. You've really assembled a great team at Silent Partner Management.
Everyone has their own specialties and strengths. The artists that
you represent can only benefit from that. Yeah, I try to set it up that way.
I have really good people in my office. I have someone who used to
be a product manager at a record company and she also worked for Peter
Gabriel for a few years. That's Susan Bank. Debi Burdick had worked
for me for a long time under Ron and Bill Graham. Whenever we have
an artist that's working on the making of a record, Debi really jumps
in because she used to work in a recording studio and she knows all
the recording studios and the people that book them. She knows about
credits, she knows about doing publishing clearances and BMI clearances
and splits. She sets it up right so that the accounting is going through
from dollar one on the first record sold properly and that everyone's
name is spelled right in the credits and that everyone knows what
the deadlines are. All those things are well-planned out so it's not,
'Oh, my God, this is your record cover and you have to have all your
credits in about a half an hour!' You know what I mean? Dave, strictly
from an unsigned artist's standpoint, what do you think is a fair
rate between an artist and a manager--a good, experienced, reputable
manager--not the band's best friend? It all depends on the situation
and there's always a lot of things to weigh. Every deal is different.
The standard deal is 20%. Managers work from anywhere from 2 1/2%
to 50%. Is there usually a length of time specified in a artist/management
contract or does that usually depend on the situation? It all depends. The thing that's important
about a contract, any contract, is that it's a living and breathing
arrangement. Once you sign it, it stays in a file and you should never
pull it out. Because if you pull it out it's usually because you're
headed to court! There's a lot of 'boiler-plate' stuff (in a contract)
that protects people's rights as individuals or their marks or their
images and that sort of thing. But there's also standard things to
any deal and that's the term--which is the length of time of the contract--and
then what the money is, what the percentage is. Those are the two
main things right there. Some bands want to give their manager full
power-of-attorney because they don't want to know anything or it's
just the way they want it. Other bands would never do that. My opinion
is that the artist can never know enough. They constantly should know
as much as possible. You can't lose by knowing "too much." What skills make a great manager? Communication and balance. 'Balance'
as in being there for every member of the band, is that what you mean?
No, just balance in respect to being able to try to speed up
or slow down to every situation that you encounter. Being from the
artist or being from the elements outside of the artist. For example,
say the band (that you manage), after writing a huge punk rock record
that sells really well, comes back with an album of ballads on acoustic
piano. It's the sense of balance by saying, 'Well, you know, you've
made a freak of a record and the fanbase that you've built so far
probably isn't going to go to this, but this is true to your heart
and your guts and that's what came out and know this going into it.' I think it's being able to try, through
communicating well, to get other people to have realistic expectations.
I'm friends with Rusty Harmon. Hootie and the Blowfish's first
record sold 15 million copies. The second record came out and sold
2 1/2 million and it was considered a complete disaster! Now, if you
talk to anybody who's not signed right now, or anybody period, and
you say, 'Your second record that you put out is going to sell 2 1/2
million...' They would be ecstatic. They would jump for joy! Rusty
was really good at getting the record company and the publishing company
and the people on his team into realizing, 'Hey, we're going to sell
2 or 3 million and it's GOOD that we sold 2 or 3 million', instead
of 'Jeez, we ONLY sold 2 or 3 million.' You know? I've been dealing
with that a lot now with Blues Traveler where the fourth record sold
6 million and this most recent record has ONLY sold a million four.
(Laughs) Can I tell you something? I'm really fucking happy! I think
that's awesome and the people on our team do, too. Our agent, our
publisher, the record company people. I really tried to keep the deal
on that level. I didn't go back to A&M and beat on their heads
and renegotiate so that if they didn't sell 6 million records on the
next record they'd (A&M) be losing a ton of money. And then that would probably have given them the incentive to
want to drop Blues Traveler, correct? Yeah, I mean not that they would anyway,
but... But you never know. Yeah. That's where keeping it a living
and breathing deal is really an important thing. You know what? If
you bet on yourself and you set the risk for somebody else lower and
the return at the back end for you higher, if you're worth your shit,
it's going to pay. It's going to pay. If you were representing an
unsigned band that had a huge buzz and there was a bidding war, which
would you advise; taking a low or no advance and putting the money
into the record, the promotion and such or a taking as much money
as you could with the realization that most unproven, newly-signed
bands just get dropped early on anyway by the record label? You know
what? There's no set way to do it. Are we talking about a hip hop band? Are we talking about a
hippie band? Are we talking about a pop band? Let's say a modern rock or a rock
and roll band. I guess I would advise them to get as much money as
they could--that they can control. What exactly do you mean 'they can control?' That they would control everything
so that you only look to the record company for one thing. That one
thing is to put records in stores. You get money to promote it yourself,
you get money to publicize it yourself, you get money to make it yourself.
You get money to put yourself on the road because otherwise you're
going to make a record and they're going to say, 'Something got lost
in the demo and we don't hear the shit that we originally heard and
now we're not going to give you any tour support.' I think the more
self-directed an artist is and the more control that an artist can
retain, the better off an artist is going to be. You mentioned to
me before, off the record, that without a record label behind you
it's hard to get on the radio. That's right. So if you're taking their
money and you're saying, 'We want to promote it and we want to do
a lot of these things ourselves', how do you get on radio then? How
do you smack that hand that's feeding you by saying, 'We'll do it
ourselves, but we'll need your help getting on radio? We can't do
that ourselves!' They'll help but they basically have to come to you
to spend their money. Is this something that's realistic? Can that really happen? It does happen. If labels want bands
bad enough they'll do all sorts of things! _________________________________________________________________________________
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